JC Poppe is one of the Milwaukee hip-hop scene’s most ardent supporters, and also one of its most outspoken critics. For the past half year the Milwaukee-born rapper has run the blog Milwaukee UP, one of the city’s most thorough sources for local hip-hop news and commentary. He also manages local artists and early this year released one of the city’s first hip-hop compilations, Yo! MKE Raps. Poppe agreed to join me for an extended--make that very extended--conversation about the state of Milwaukee hip-hop. Over a series of spirited e-mails, we candidly discussed the scene’s sometimes destructive internal politics, its national standing and the Milwaukee rappers we feel are most overlooked.
Evan: Let’s start big picture. The Milwaukee rap scene seems to be better organized and better supported than ever. There are more radio stations playing local hip-hop and more media outlets covering it, and anecdotally, it seems that the local rap scene has become a more prominent source of pride for many Milwaukeeans. What’s your read? Is this really a bright time for local hip-hop, and if so, does the scene have what it takes to translate that local excitement into national attention?
JC: I have to both agree and disagree with the statement of things being more organized and better supported.
From a publication standpoint I think that you are completely accurate in your read. You can look any of the Milwaukee players (Shepherd, AV Club, Third Coast, OnMilwaukee and even the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel) and see that the hip-hop community is actively being written about on almost a weekly basis in some way. That's very promising to see.
When it comes to the radio, I think there is progress being made there as well. Radio Milwaukee has added a reasonable amount of Milwaukee hip-hop to their rotation and that's an accomplishment to say that the music is in "rotation.” I of course being a fan of Milwaukee hip-hop and somebody who writes about it, would love to see more, but what they do is a step in the right direction and valuable to Milwaukee.
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When talking about the radio, you can't forget about the Tuesday night slot that could have disappeared over at WMSE once the Late Night Hype guys decided that their run was done. Thankfully, Madhatter and Kid Cut Up stepped into that spot and though Madhatter's spot has changed a few times, Cut Up is still going strong and his presence is something that I feel is necessary for the buzz to keep building in regards to Milwaukee hip-hop.
As for the mainstream commercial stations, you can't expect much from them when it comes to local music due to their corporate restrictions but I know that V100 has had Ray Nitti, Streetz N Young Deuces, and other people in rotation. KISS of course has their Icon (formerly Idol) each year and there are always Milwaukee hip-hop artists that make it into their battle. So again, while I wish it was more, they do something.
As far as local pride goes, it's difficult to really gauge that. When I attend shows I've noticed that attendance is down, or at least it feels down. Now, I don't attend shows by "club" artists just because that's not my interest, so I'd be interested to know how they are doing from somebody who goes to the shows.
I was at Melissa Czarnik's album release party and after all the press she's received over the last few years, including the local love she gets, it was a lot less packed than I had expected. The Miltown Beat Down final this year really seemed to be thinner than finals in years past. Again, I can only speak on what I've personally attended but I've talked to several artists that have been pretty disappointed with recent turnouts, who are trying to figure out exactly what is going on. These are established artists and not Rappers X, Y or Z.
Honestly, I think the scene is dealing with having too many artists and not enough people who are just fans. You can see the lines continually being drawn by people on social networking sites. This camp doesn't like this camp, this person is tossing blatant "subliminals" at another person, and so that just really divides everything up because so many confuse musical appreciation with loyalty.
As far as the music that's being produced, I think things are very bright. This year we have seen some fantastic additions to the legacy of Milwaukee hip-hop, some very good ones, and some people who are actually motivated to take their music beyond the boundaries of the city, county, and state.
On a national level, I think that Milwaukee has everything it needs to compete musically with the likes of Houston, Atlanta, New York, Chicago, LA, etc., but just on a smaller scale. The biggest problem that I see is that there are a lot of artists that talk out of both sides of their mouth about Milwaukee and that musical love they show the city often doesn't come from their true sentiments about Milwaukee. Just look at Facebook or Twitter and you are going to come across "Fuck this wack-ass city..." etc. Even though other places, like say a Detroit, have artists that hate each other, every one of them is still repping Detroit across the board and believes they have the best stuff to offer musically. They don't want to be another city or try to pander to another city for their approval, they approve of themselves and take that wherever they go.
There are some people that are starting to catch on to Milwaukee music through artists that have blazed some trails, and that's always good.
Evan: For me, V100 has been one of the most remarkable media transformations. For years that station was the embodiment of the villainous, Clear Channel-owned urban station, but they’ve upped their community outreach considerably over the last couple of years. Between their scattered “Heat From The Street” segments, they’re now dedicating several hours a week to Milwaukee music, and though they of course exclude a lot of alternative rap, they’re still calling attention to a lot of deserving club music that could once only be heard on WMSE’s too-often-overlooked “Saturday Afternoon Boogie Bang.”
I’m curious to learn more about the internal politics of the Milwaukee hip-hop scene. Just how ugly are they? From the outside, things seem mostly friendly. There’s a lot of collaboration, and a lot of artists promoting shows and releases that aren’t their own. I have seen some of the duplicity you mentioned--artists saying they’re excited about representing Milwaukee, when mostly they just aspire to leave the city--but I haven’t witnessed too many feuds spill into the public eye. How many are there, and how detrimental are they to the scene?
All in all, I think I am less optimistic about Milwaukee’s national standing than you right now. That’s mostly for one reason: While the city has some scattered talent, perhaps more than it’s ever had, it still doesn’t have a defining sound. I have a decent sense of what Minneapolis, Chicago, Detroit and even Cincinnati hip-hop sounds like, but even as a somebody who follows local hip-hop closely, I have a difficult time pinpointing what sets Milwaukee’s scene apart. Does Milwaukee have the unique hook it needs to build a national reputation?
JC: Any stride forward is a good one and being that V100 is the largest "urban" radio station in Milwaukee, to have more of Milwaukee's "urban" music featured on it really is a sign that things are potentially getting better, at least from the commercial side of the scene, but more can always be done by everybody to support the different movements going on in Milwaukee.
The politics of the scene are odd and maybe exactly what you'd expect from so many artists populating a small area. There are certain artists out there or crews that have aligned themselves with each other, and mostly stay exclusive to the artists within that circle. This pits them against anybody not in the circle, which causes friction as you can imagine.
Put that on top of the fact that hip-hop itself is an arrogant art form and you get people trading barbs quite often. Sometimes it's more often than other times, but it never really stops. The competitive edge of hip-hop is always going to allow for people to talk smack about others and claim supremacy over another. I don't care who it is, what era it's from, etc., everybody is always claiming to be on the top of the pile.
Just as I said that there are a lot of people who have very plainly drawn lines, there are just as many, or maybe more, people that prefer to talk about the other artists behind their backs. Like you said, it looks on the surface like everything is OK if you were to look in on it from the outside, but it's not.
Being in the position that I am, a person who writes about the scene, I find myself in conversations frequently about how everyone feels about each other. Like I said, it's hard to find fans right now, artists aren't coming out to some people's shows like they once did, the press coverage some get insults other artists, so on and so forth. I've come under attack a few times for posting certain people on Milwaukee UP, for the artists that I compiled together on the Yo! MKE Raps--compilation, and other stuff. By and large it's anonymous, just like the crazy stuff you see pop up on the AV Club comment boards.
Bottom line, there are a lot of people bitching about what they don't get or about what another person does get, instead of trying other avenues to get attention drawn to them or blatantly asking why local media doesn't write about them or radio doesn't play their music. The answer might not be something they really want to hear, so they prefer to just complain. Some of those complaints are why I started Milwaukee UP, to try to focus more attention on the hip-hop scene. After six-plus months of doing it, I still find 99% of what I put up on my blog on my own even though I have provided an email where people can send me their music or information. I honestly believe that there are a lot of people out there have it in their mind that them being cool is going to drive the media to them. Maybe, but also maybe not.
I've also seen some positives come from other trying to follow the trail of what others have done, to see if they can benefit from doing the same thing. For some, that work, works out. It just comes off like there are a lot of bitter people at times. I think the older generation of artists would just laugh at how good Milwaukee hip-hop artists have it now compared to the days when you couldn't book a show and radio play wasn't ever going to happen. However, there are some really hard working people who don't turn their backs on Milwaukee when times get tough or things don't go as they had wanted. Those are the people who really make the Milwaukee hip-hop scene rich and plentiful and something worth watching.
I don't really know how optimistic I am about Milwaukee's national chances, but I think the fact that we don't necessarily have a specific sound could work itself into being an advantage. Though I don't believe that Milwaukee should TRY to sound like Atlanta, there are artists from Milwaukee that just do, and since that's what is hotthat soundthat makes them generally more appropriate for the larger commercial crowds. The alternative hip-hop side has a sound that could fit in, in any alt. scene. There is no reason that a KHB couldn't fit in with Rhymesayers, Haz Solo with Stones Throw, the House of M on Decon, etc. And, when I say fit in, I am NOT saying "just sound like everybody else on their roster."
At the end of the day, I don't know if having a specific sound matters outside of everything sounding great.
Evan: I’ve had the same experience covering the local rap scene. Most of what I write about I still discover through surfing MySpace pages in search of something that sounds exciting, and to be honest, it’s gotten a lot harder over the last few years. There’s so much local hip-hop out therea product of advances in home recording technology, which have made it easier and cheaper to record than everbut so little of it is actually worthwhile. I sometimes worry that all that background noise makes it harder to discover true talent. Sometimes talent seems to rise to the topthe Umbrella Music Group and KHB, in particular, are rightly singled out by local mediabut just as often, it doesn’t.
The overlooked rapper the most comes to mind for me is Pacino. For my money, he’s easily one of the most impressive lyricists in the city, with a knack for storytelling and stark, genuinely novel imagery that few in the city can match. The guy can rap for hours without wasting a bar, yet he’s routinely overlooked in favor of better-promoted alt-rappers who pad their verses with filler, clichés and platitudes. It can be hard to watch. I do sometimes think that mediocrity gets a pass in the Milwaukee rap scene, while less-connected talent is rarely given any breaks. The historic example of this, of course, is Sticklin, one of the funniest, most personable rappers the city’s ever known, who until a few years ago couldn’t have been made to feel any less welcome in the local scene.
So with that off my chest, I’ll leave you with two final questions: Does the Milwaukee rap sceneand the media that covers itdo a thorough enough job separating the wheat from the chaff? And, more importantly, which if any artists in the local rap scene do you believe deserve more attention than they have received?
JC: You know, it's very hard to quantify the worth of an artist, specifically when you come into the situation of applying your own personal taste to a local scene. As a writer, there are a lot of artists that I find mediocre based on my ears, but I can completely acknowledge that to another person the music has some real value. At the end of the day, music is art, and as we all know, the beauty (or lack thereof) found within the different expressions of the art lie solely in the way it connects (or doesn't) with the population at large, and somebody is always going to find something they like that others completely hate, and vice-versa.
The music has to be written about, and sometimes it's going to miss the mark, but the writer can only do so much based on what they are given or come across. I guess that's why I do as much behind the scenes as I do, putting out press releases for people, trying to keep up a conversation with you and other writers about what's going on, in addition to doing Milwaukee UP. The more transparent the scene is with those who can write about it, the better off everything is.
There a couple of artists that I really enjoy that I would love to see get press or more press than they've already received. Some of those artists are people that I work with and others just people I've come across through "digging.”
The first person that comes to mind is SPEAK Easy, a guy who is now hooked up with IV Tin Soliders management (that also manages Frankie Flowers and Maal Himself & TKS of Misen Lync). SPEAK put out an album a couple of years ago that had some really great music on it but if you weren't active in the scene, going to shows, it's possible that you'd never have heard of him. He has sharp lyrics, sharp punchlines, and a charismatic flow. I think he deserves more attention.
I'm intrigued by the group Born Brothaz, a trio of three brothers that have recently put out a mixtape. I hear talent in what they do and with some more refining and time doing music, I think they're going to grow into something really good...another Prophetic situation where they can bridge the gap between the North Side and East Side/Riverwest/Bay View scenes and find love on any street.
Some other guys that are really talented to me are RTystic and Direc of the SAFS Crew. They are college kids and really have the time to put some awesome stuff together now. Whenever those two guys kick a verse or drop a song, it's consistent with the quality that I've to expect from them.
Also, Tay Butler is back at it after a little while off so I hope people pick up on what he's doing. I could also take the time to gush over Raze and A.P.R.I.M.E. but since I'm their business manager I'd come off as biased, but there is a reason that I spend hours working on stuff for them; I believe they are extremely talented and worth the time. The Hollowz are also fantastic and when they release their album, it would be a crime for them to not get coverage.
For the most part I believe that the people who receive the bulk of the press deserve it. Cover Proph, cover KHB, cover The Lab Experiment (formerly Partners), cover Fresh Cut Collective, cover Ray Nitti, cover Streetz N Young Deuces, cover Frankie Flowers. They are making noise for a reason; hard work and professionalism should be rewarded.
All and all, through the positives and the negatives of the Milwaukee hip-hop scene, there really is something special going on right now, and I just hope something doesn't come along to nuke the progress in quality and accessibility.
